Keywords:- Organisational Change; Conversation Analysis; Ethnomethodology; Financial Institutions; Information Technology; Interaction Analysis; Managerial Work; Organisation Theory; Skill ; Sociology of Work; The ‘Virtual’ and the ‘Real’; Virtual Customers; Virtual Organisation; Virtual Teams
Financial institutions have long been in the forefront of the use of distributed computer systems. Recently, in conjunction with the sorts of major organisational changes, they have begun to explore the increased use of IT to support decision-making, quality control, and customer services (Burton, 1994). These systems are intended to facilitate shared work across the organisational divide. This form of working, where organisational function or process is considered more important than organisational location has been characterised as ‘virtual teamworking’ (Zimmerman, 1997). The organisational objective that resides behind this is the replacement of administrative structures with flexible networks of workers and organisational units. These are linked by information technology to give co-ordination to their activities, and their skills and resources are combined to achieve common goals (Nonaka & Takeuchi, 1995). Notions such as ‘virtual teamwork’ are associated with the now much-hyped concept of the ‘virtual organisation’ (Henderson & Venkatraman, 1997; Zimmerman, op cit.). Such organisational forms, it is claimed, address major transformations in the social, economic and technological environment in which organisations operate (Nonaka & Takeuchi, op cit.).
Just as organisations are perceived to have changed in response to technological developments so, too, have the associated skill requirements. Zuboff, for example, writes of new forms of organisational behaviour "in which relationships are more intricate, collaborative and bound by mutual responsibilities of colleagues" (Zuboff, 1988, 6). In a similar fashion Casey detects the development of new forms of teamwork, "in which people share knowledge, skills and resources and work co-operatively in the manufacture of their products" (Casey, 1995, 109). Relationship to a product, to team family members and to the company, it is argued, "displaces identification with occupation and its historic repository of skills, knowledges and allegiances" (ibid.). Such teamworking is purportedly "less fettered by the constraints of traditional hierarchies and spheres of responsibility", and consequently "engenders a heightened sense of empowerment, commitment and collective responsibility" (op cit., 45). This sort of analysis clearly impacts on various debates on ‘skill’ but such diagnoses of organisational change need to be subjected to close empirical examination. Other views are considerably less sanguine about the consequences of technological change and more sceptical about the likelihood of such a transformation in teamworking, skill, identification and empowerment (Kunda, 1992). As Ducatel puts it: "The absence of an a priori direction in which the technology will take organisations makes the empirical investigation of how computer network technology is being implemented of the utmost importance and urgency" (Ducatel, 1992, 166). It is just such an empirical enterprise that we have elected to undertake by explicating some of the lived-in and achieved characteristics of everyday work within an organisation that could be described as ‘virtual’.
The particular focus of this paper is the work of a Business Manager, a ‘middle manager’ in the Business Centre of a major UK retail bank, who describes his job as ‘relationship management’. The strategic plan this bank has developed has been implemented in various ways. The most significant of these is the centralisation and standardisation of its ‘back office’ processing through the creation of specialist centres such as Lending Centres, Service Centres and Securities Centres. All of these are intended to service ‘high street’ Customer Service Branches and, in tandem with these, the Business Centres. It is against this backdrop of ongoing centralisation and standardisation, then, that this study has been conducted.
Business Managers spend much of their time in face-to-face interaction with customers, balancing their needs with the needs of the bank, trying to evolve and maintain a relationship between them. This relationship is not between abstract organisations, but between managers and the owners of businesses. For each party this involves locating their own sets of relevances within the work that they understand the other party to do, and making these subject to ordinary, orderly work in their conversations. However, the work is also about building and preserving a personal bond between the manager and the customer. This too is achieved through extending the interview beyond the strict relevances of bank business: swapping stories and jokes; discussing leisure activities and mutual friends; developing a sense of ‘investment’ in each other. A whole range of technological support and decision-making packages have become a resource that Business Managers are expected to draw upon in this interaction. Yet, in practice, we find that most of their decisions come to be based upon their personal knowledge of the customer. One of the key resources they draw upon is the stories that customers tell and it is the dynamics of the conversations themselves that often shape future outcomes.
We look here at one particular interview and relate it to some of the subsequent records the Manager is obliged to produce. The procedural implicativeness of such computer-mediated records becomes itself a resource through which he seeks to justify to the ‘virtual organisation’ the ‘real’ decisions, based on ‘real’ interaction, that he has made. In this sense, then, we feel such managers can aptly be considered to be a locus through which the ‘virtual’ ideal and the need to practically achieve the ‘real’ work with ‘real’ customers gets negotiated. Whilst they must engage with their customers and arrive at practical decisions, they must also account for those decisions in the terms of the organisation within which they reside.
The individual whom, for the sake of anonymity, we shall henceforth refer to as ‘Simon Douglas’ is one of four ‘Relationship Managers’ in the particular Business Centre that we chose to study. As we have already intimated Business Centres are specialised units whose function is to ‘front’ at a more local level the combined functions of the other processing units within the bank. The staff in a Business Centre are, in that case, effectively the point of contact between business customers and the Bank. It is through their actions that particular customer requests can come to implicate numerous other units1 . ‘Simon’s’ professed objective is to maintain and develop the Bank’s relationship with his own portfolio2 of such customers. He aims to keep them on-board with the Bank and expand income from them through things like lending or selling them other bank ‘products’. This ‘relationship management’ is largely achieved through direct contact with the customers, either face-to-face, or on the telephone, with a great deal of the face-to-face contact occurring ‘out’ at customers’ businesses.
An important characteristic of Simon’s work is that, whilst imbued with routine, the actual routines are configured around ‘as needs must’. This is because Simon’s work is essentially reactive and customer driven. It quickly becomes apparent that there is no such thing as a typical working week or even a typical working day for Simon. Every day is different and, whilst he clearly does have certain tasks that he must prioritise, most of his work is contingent upon the inflow of his customers’ enquiries and requests. So the outflow of his activities is largely geared towards the resolution of these. He does have a number of purely administrative tasks to fulfil. However, these tend to be ordered in an ad hoc fashion around what he clearly sees as the chief objective of maintaining his relationship with his customers.
The customer interview we focus on in this paper is what is termed an ‘Annual Review’. As a matter of course all business customers have interviews once a year. This ‘Annual Review’ is partly a means of maintaining contact. However, it is also used to update customers’ requirements and frequently seems to be treated as an opportunity to increase lending or make other sorts of sales. Most of Simon’s work proved to revolve around preparing for, engaging in, and dealing with the repercussions of this sort of personal interaction with his customers.
Preparatory Work
The interview in question was to be held at nine o’clock in the morning which, for Simon and his colleagues is considered to be a fairly early call. Simon’s assistant, Janet, had already arranged an appointment for him to visit the business which was some ten miles to the South of the town in which the Business Centre is based. Janet had spent some time the previous evening preparing the customer file, including the various documents Simon would specifically require in the interview. She had then left it on his desk in readiness for the morning. Prior to driving to see the customer Simon spent a short while browsing through this file and making notes on anything he particularly needed to cover3. The following extract from our fieldnotes illustrates the kinds of preparations Simon goes through:
Having completed his preliminary study of the documentation Simon gathered up the file, his notepad, and his calculator, put them in his briefcase, and got ready to go out to visit the customer.
Demeanour Work and Topic Management
The interview in question was with an individual whom we shall call ‘Graham Croft’. ‘Graham’ is one of two proprietors of a frozen meat products company. The company had been doing business with the Bank for a number of years and Simon himself conducted the previous Annual Review. However, at the previous Review Simon had noted a slight downturn in business, a downturn that Graham had provided plausible reasons for at the time. Simon had looked at the printouts of the company’s relationship with the Bank over the past year. Having related that to the previous Appraisal Form he was no longer certain that the reasons Graham had given him the previous year were ‘true’. There had continued to be what he termed ‘a cash drain on the bank account’. Trying to establish the ‘real’ cause for this was Simon’s chief objective within the interview and it did, indeed, inform a great deal of the discussion that ensued:
Graham Big difference
Simon Yeah (.) So there is so what that actually tells me is y’know despite what (.) your views were in terms of that stock position at Christmas (.) that seems to tell a slightly different tale w [hereas
Graham [( )
Simon actually over that period there’s been an absolute drain on cash on the b- on the bank account
Graham Hhh (.) you have a look (.) Just done December’s (.) very good (.)
Simon That’s just the month is it?
Graham Yeah
Simon Are these sort of in::
Graham Yeah they’re in order but if y’look in November’s absolutely atrocious
...
Simon ...These figures (.) the (.) sort of monthly figures do these include yours and Bill’s drawings as partners or not?
Graham Yeah
Simon Do they? Where’s that go in?
Graham General overheads
Simon It goes in there does [it?
Graham [Yeah ours is set en’t it so
Under the circumstances, then, evolving and maintaining the relationship is dependent to a considerable degree upon how a fit between these requirements is negotiated and achieved within the interview. Achievement of that balancing out of requirements work is implicit within the interview. It therefore becomes a case of each party to the interaction meshing his/her sense of ‘the work that they do’ with ‘the work that I do myself’6.
In face-to-face interaction this meshing of relevances work that people like Simon and Graham achieve is not something aside from and separate to how they understand and orient to achieving their ordinary interaction. In practice it proves to be something that they have to achieve in and through the everyday interactional competences that they possess (Harper & Hughes, 1993; Hughes, King et al., 1996). For each party airing their requirements and negotiating how these can best be achieved becomes a matter of locating a suitable set of shared relevances. This they do using the same sorts of methods that members use to establish shared relevances within any other sort of conversational interaction (e.g. see Sacks, 1978, 266). The negotiation of shared relevances, in that case, clearly makes the work of any such interview ‘work we are doing together’. It is not a matter of merely laying down demands upon each other saying ‘this is what I want from you’. Not that such interactional situations cannot occur. It is rather that such a thing would amount to a swapping of ultimatums. Ultimatums are clearly not an everyday part of something like an Annual Review. As Simon put it after one interview that he found particularly difficult to control, they don’t want to ‘seem rude’7.
The sense each party to the interaction has, then, of there being some locatable set of relevances which they share, is not something simply taken for granted and put to one side. Instead it turns out to be something that they have to work at recurrently throughout the conversation. A good deal of this work is informal, light-hearted in character, and redolent with personal details. Work of this order has been characterised elsewhere as ‘demeanour work’8 (King & Randall, 1994; & Randall & Hughes, 1994). In the following extract we can see how, despite having raised a potentially important topic for discussion, both Simon and Graham slide into a swapping of stories about lottery wins. It is Graham who starts it, but Simon aligns with it by laughing and providing recognition of the conventional humour of what, in other, more earnest circumstances might be viewed as flippancy. He indicates implicitly within this his preparedness to engage with such asides rather than dismiss them. That then provides Graham with the opportunity to flag a story, "I won on Saturday", which Simon indicates his receptiveness to through his question requesting further details about the amount:
(2.5)
Graham I’m (.) I’m lookin for a lottery win
Simon hehhehhehhe
Graham I won on Saturday
Simon Did you really? (.) A tenner?
Graham No (.) Four numbers
Simon Four?
Graham A hundred and ten quid
Simon That’s quite good actually for four numb[ers
Graham [Yeah and of course I didn’t have anythin to do wi it It was Lucky Dip weren’t it?
Simon Right (.) I’ve had four numbers before and I got err::
Graham Fifty quid?
Simon Less than that (.) In fact I’ve had four numbers twice now (.) and it was less than fifty quid both times (.) coz I expected quite a bit of money fer that (.) It’s quite hard to get four numbers en’t it? (.)
Graham I’ve only ever had three (.) That’s before (0.5) And I thought it were a very good do
Simon I was talkin to two customers yesterday that sold the er (.) the two million pound one (.) ...
This sense of shared locale, acquaintances and activities is something that relationship managers regularly turn to as a resource. Names of acquaintances proved to be something they were especially ready to pick up on and subject to further demeanour work:
Graham Aye (.) could do (.)
Simon I- I- I don’t need it desperately urgent [ly
Graham [well I can I’ll get him to do a copy and I’ll pick it up and drop it off [( )
Simon [who deals with it is it Peter**** in Lancaster?
Graham Colin **** and Geoff****=
Simon =Geoff ****? Right (.) How how long’s it gonna be before he does em?
Graham Well I don’t know I only give em in:: Was it last week?
Sacks describes locating ‘personal relevances’ in this way the development of a sense of ‘investment’ in the other person, such that one might appropriately display that what happens to them personally matters to you (Sacks, 1978, 261). At least one good reason why someone might want to work up this sort of level of ‘investment’ in a customer interview is to do with rendering the products of that interaction not just generally but personally accountable. In that way the outcomes can be seen to gain credence through the extent to which they are attributable. There is a certain degree of impotence about saying, should things go wrong, it was ‘the Bank’s fault that it happened’. However, it is an altogether more powerful thing to say that it was the particular fault of ‘so-and-so’. At an interactional level, then, the abstract character of organisations is recognised and oriented to, and this is demonstrated in interviews where accountability becomes not so much a matter of ‘what says?’ as ‘who?’.
When it comes to Simon and Graham working their own particular requirements into the conversation, or locating specific relevances within the job that they each do, they can’t simply put these straight on the table. They have to be manoeuvred into the talk so that they can be seen to be of mutual relevance. Furthermore, their actual placing within the talk is critical both in terms of how they are understood to relate to what has gone before and what they are implicative for subsequently (Heritage, 1984, 245). In the following example we witness Simon using the conventional topic marker "as I was saying". This is a recurrent and commonplace strategy for marking a ‘same topic as was mentioned before’ relationship through a whole range of different kinds of conversation (Sacks, 1992, 254):
(5.0)
Simon So (.) errm (2.0) As I was sayin tha- that (.) That (.) The way that I interpret those figures is what that’s tellin me (.) namely that in the last twelve months there has been a drain on the account (.) Somewhere in the region of (.) maybe [ten or
Graham [Yeah
Simon fifteen thousand (1.8)
Graham Yeah (.) well we can’t rely on [that one can we
Simon [hehheh No (.) Not really
Graham Hehhehheh
Graham No (.) well I [don’t
Where Numbers Speak a Thousand Words
At least one of the recurrent ways in which managers present and negotiate the more specific relevances they share is through the use of numbers. Numbers, it becomes quickly apparent, are not evidently meaningful in and as of themselves within such interaction. Rather they are a resource upon which to construct stories, represent appropriate understandings, or set out projections (Harper, 1989).
Graham yeah
Simon and then it started to go down a bit back up again in October then down again back up again in December which is when we spoke
Graham Yeah
Simon and it’s (.) almost nothing for a really ( ) period but on the same side (.) y- your best position was getting higher and higher up to there (.) it did start to run down (.) to here but it hasn’t run down to the levels it has done in previous years (.)
Graham [[yeah
Simon [[I can show you the limit
Graham yeah
Simon It started to creep up again now so that y’know (.) since October the account’s not been below ten and its not been below thirteen since (.) well
Graham Christmas
Simon yeah
Graham Christmas
Simon If you look back to the previous year (.) This is exactly the same sort of printout for the previous year, you can see that there is a much heavier utilisation on both sides (.) That’s credit (.) So during the year That last year you were ((phone ringing)) significantly
Graham Big difference
Simon Yeah (.) So there is so what that actually tells me is y’know despite what (.) your views were in terms of that stock position at Christmas (.) that seems to tell a slightly different tale
A further important point to be made about the above interaction relates to the way that the printouts in the file get implicated and drawn upon within the talk. These printouts in particular might be seen as the IT-mediated resources that are most to hand within the interview itself. However, it also has to be seen that the placing of these printouts in the file in the first place requires a rough projection of what will be of relevance during the interview. Once the Manager is actually conducting the interview the wealth of the information available on RBP is reduced effectively to what is ‘to-hand’ within the file ‘here-and-now’.
Formulations
The interaction in a customer interview is not simply understood to be the same as the sort of everyday conversation that might accompany, say, a chance encounter in the street. It is specifically oriented to by both parties to be just what it is - a customer interview. Orientations to this recognition surface regularly because an interview of this kind is quite explicitly understood to have consequences for future outcomes. In something like a customer interview both parties quite explicitly understand that their talk is directly linked to future action. This understanding results in certain specialisations within the talk that, whilst subject to the orderly methodology of conversational interaction, reveal their attention to future outcomes. One particularly significant specialisation that is visible in customer interviews is the use of ‘formulations’.
We have already commented on Simon and Graham’s clear orientation to their own perceived roles as ‘interviewer’ and ‘interviewee’. One particular ‘interviewer’ phenomenon is the production of formulations designed to exhibit understanding of topics and their perceived level of significance (Greatbatch, 1992; Heritage & Greatbatch, 1991; Heritage & Watson, 1979 & 1980) 10. In the context of a customer interview managers like Simon seem to use formulations in quite specific ways. The most notable feature of this is that they are not just presented in such a way as to summarise what has been said. They quite explicitly project what each party has said will be done. Furthermore, such formulations don’t just reveal an orientation to the implicativeness of what they are doing for future courses of action. They also display attentiveness to how those courses of action can best be rendered relevant and accountable in terms of what the manager perceives to be the Bank’s objectives. During the course of the interview with Graham, Simon produces several formulations of this kind. First of all he provides a formulation relating to the talk about missing management figures and the apparent problem revealed by the printouts:
Graham Yeah (.) well itsa (.) itsa big difference ain’t it?
Another feature of this formulation that needs to be pointed up is the way that Graham aligns with what Simon has said. Furthermore, he explicitly summarises and approves Simon’s perspective by acknowledging that it is "a big difference". This is a crucial part in any formulation. Formulations are used by participants to summarise their understanding of the interaction so far and what implicativeness it might have. Clearly, since formulations in this kind of context are likely to have consequences for the future, it is important that agreement is reached on whether or not the formulation is ‘correct’.
They discuss several possible causes for the perceived problem. Graham then explains that he has cancelled the company pension plan and is planning to sell a vehicle to reduce overheads. At this point Simon provides another, more extended formulation:
Graham Yeah
Simon And it’s not goin dramatically worse than it was this time last year
Graham No
Simon So (.) It could well be that durin the course of the year you have taken the necessary action t- to (.)
Graham Well we [‘ve
Simon [ste- stem the flow from from wherever it’s goin
Graham ( )
Simon I know you always look at your overheads and
Graham Yeah
Simon keep on top of them
Graham Well we try our best (.) Y’know It’s like anything
Graham [I’ll get (.)
Simon [[them figures
Graham [[I’ll find the up-to-date (.) [I’ll put
Simon [You’re gonna
Graham all them copies of them (.) and I’ll call at accountants to get a copy of that
Simon Right (.)
Graham Profit and lo[ss sheet
Simon [and you’re gonna have a look at them as well
Graham Yeah we’ll have a look at them
Simon Right
Graham And I’ll get back to you on [them
Simon [And like I said I’d also recommend (.) i- it’s no problem t get Mike t have a chat with you (.) like I [say
Graham [Yeah
Simon He’s not goin t hassle you=
Graham =yeah yeah well get him to (.)
Simon I’ll get him to give you a ring and phone to arrange a mutually convenient time He’ll just need an hour or so to go thru [what
Graham [right
Simon he needs to go through
Graham Hohh: (.) Tell im he’s comin to see a fella who’s got nowt
Reconfiguring the Customer
The ‘contractual’ character of formulations is important in relation to how managers like Simon get to actualise the Bank’s strategic objectives. One of the professed aims of the Bank’s strategic plan is the reconfiguration of customers such that their behaviours and interactions with the bank are rendered wholly predictable (similarly see Woolgar, 1991)11. Clearly a part of this is related to the growing amount of information compiled and used at a bank-wide level through their Retail Banking Platform. They are especially concerned about the quality of customer notes on their relational database. Under the circumstances it is easy to see why the Bank should wish to formalise and standardise the formats for the presentation of such information (Randall et al., 1995). It is but a small step from there to wanting to ensure that customers behave in a way that will best facilitate such a uniformity of approach. At the heart of this ‘configuring the user’ (Woolgar, op cit.) idea lies the notion that both customers and staff can simply be trained to behave in a rational and ordered fashion. In the case of customers this amounts to ensuring that they join the right queue, make single enquiries, ask questions ‘in the right order’ and so on. However, such a belief runs counter to the everyday observation that, even if not all customers are awkward, many are. Customers ‘typically’ make multiple enquiries involving moving in and out of a range of screens and software packages. They also ‘forget’ then ‘remember’ enquiries, digress, waste time and generally behave in ways that cannot be accounted for by any simple process model. In the case of relationship managers there is also a profound tension between such goals of standardisation and the ‘new consumerist’ ethos (see Burton, 1994; Gabriel & Lang, 1995; and Lash & Urry, 1994) that informs the way they are encouraged to work with their customers as individuals. The ‘art’ of relationship management resides, then, in the accomplishment of both fulfilling a customer’s individual requirements and making these somehow fit with the standardised requirements of the bank. A great deal of that work, as we have seen, is conducted through talk. More specifically, it is accomplished through acknowledging a customer’s needs and then presenting that in an appropriate formulation that the customer is able to ratify. That is work that is profoundly ‘skilful’, or more accurately, ‘artful’ (Anderson et al., 1989; Pycock et al., 1995).
Working Up the ‘Story’ of the Interview
When the interview was completed Simon drove back to the Bank, ready to report on the interview and make certain recommendations about the future of the relationship on an Updated Appraisal Form. Simon completes these documents, in the first instance, on a laptop computer. The Appraisal Form constitutes the official record of the interview, and the decisions that were made. Once Simon has completed it a copy is retained in his laptop-based portfolio, another copy goes in the customer file, and a further copy goes to their Regional Office for sanction. Relationship managers work through such forms in a systematic and highly sequential fashion. They use the procedural implicativeness of the forms themselves as a resource through which to arrive at justifications for their decisions (see Benford et al., 1995; and Hughes, King et al., 1996) 12. The forms follow a seemingly rational progression from: ‘Non-Financial Information’, where various background details are given about the people who run the business at a more personal level; through ‘The Business and it’s Circumstances’, where fairly precise details about the turnover of the business and it’s profit and loss etc are given; through ‘Account Operation’ where a history of the customer’s relationship with the bank is effectively given; and on through things like ‘Proposition’, where requests for loans get detailed; ‘Management’ where information is given about how the business is actually run; to overall assessments under the headings of ‘Positive’ and ‘Negative Features’. Frequently, as we have already intimated, they locate the contractual formulations they first worked up in the interview as evidential support for the decisions they have made. Here, for instance, are some excerpts from the Appraisal Form Simon completed in relation to his interview with Graham:
We have seen how it is the actual dynamics of the conversation that constitute the real work behind a relationship manager’s decisions. It is just this sort of work that informs what manager’s frequently refer to as ‘gut feeling’. ‘Gut feeling’ is something we have encountered and commented upon elsewhere, in the practical application of the lending acronym, ‘CAMPARI & ICE’. This acronym was intended as a means of assembling a 'case' for a lending decision (Hughes, Kristoffersen et al., 1996). We found that Lending Managers often used CAMPARI & ICE retrospectively to justify a decision already made on 'gut feeling' or on their apparently 'intuitive' deployment of lending ‘lore’ developed over the years. As one Lending Manager put it, "You usually find that the decision you make from your gut is the one you go with". What is gut feeling but a folk-term that recognises the experiential and emotive dimension of some particular body of information? As one particular Area Manager, who had himself been a Business Manager for many years put it: "at the end of the day...it’s got to feel right in here". Once it ‘feels right in here’ the decision is as good as made. The work then becomes accounting for that decision in ways that can be seen and understood as complying with organisational objectives and ‘rules’.
We have seen how Simon draws upon ‘decisions’ and ‘suggestions’ that were worked at mutually during a customer interview and then justifies them within a relatively formal Appraisal Form. In this way he is able to display his orientation to the current ‘style’ and ‘rules’ of the organisation he is working in. This amounts to what Bittner would have termed a ‘gambit of compliance’ (Bittner, 1965). The Appraisal Form in this context has become a resource through which Simon can arrive at a post hoc rationalisation, and procedurally ‘adequate’ display of such decisions. In that way they can be seen to be duly attentive to certain institutional considerations (Dant & Francis, 1998; Garfinkel, 1967; and Suchman, 1987) 13. A whole host of such considerations might be seen to underlie the decisions a manager makes, both within and beyond the customer interviews. In particular, when it comes to making loan decisions, a great deal turns upon what is referred to as the manager’s ‘Discretionary Power’14. Underlying this there are labels the computer-system automatically attaches to customers known as ‘Risk Grades’. This scalar means of crudely assessing the relative risk of lending to a customer lies at the heart of whether they are authorised to do so without seeking further sanction. Such constraints upon their lending power at first sight seem fairly generous. However, when there is some uncertainty about this ‘discretionary power’ the speed of response becomes a major issue. This is because decisions that cannot be made then and there have to be sent ‘up the line’ to Regional Office. That takes time, and delay here can be a crucial factor in influencing a customer who might be considering taking their business elsewhere. Such a worry is evident in the following comments that Simon volunteered just after his interview with Graham:
The